Dr. Vonda Wright on the MenoLounge
Transcribed from MenoLounge Live Interview March 28, 2023
Julie:
Well hey everyone and welcome to the MenoLounge! I'm Julie Gordon White, CEO of Bossa Bars Menopause Energy Bars. It's Tuesday. We're always here with you on Tuesday. So glad to be here. I have literally been on the road. I think this is my last trip. I leave tomorrow morning for four weeks talking about menopause bars and helping women, talking to women, talking to retail buyers so you can find them in your grocery when you're walking by. It's been super crazy. I'm gonna bring up our guests right now.
You can still find blueberry, exclusively on Amazon to the end of the month, and then you can find it on our site and Amazon. Everyone is loving, loving loving them.
So, Dr. Vonda Wright! How are you? Welcome to the MenoLounge! Thank you so much. How are you? Alright, over the moon, I have to tell you, I have been bingeing on all of your online content, especially this morning. I just I love every single thing that you've said and I know that our audience today is going to be so excited.
Well, let's jump in. So Dr. Vonda Wright. I consider you a celebrity orthopedic surgeon. You've been on The Doctors (tv show) many times, Dr. Oz, you are an amazing speaker. You are out there helping women, helping men, get through aging in a strong, bone dense, lean body mass way. All of the goodness, I can't even check all of the things that you talk about.
But it's so important, and in alignment with women in the stages of menopause from peri-menopause to post, and you're an author of a book "Fitness Over 40" which I'm going to get that this weekend. So let's just start with something you said, "Pear versus Apple" Can we jump in right there?
Dr. Vonda:
Sure. The question you asked me is really about our genetic predisposition for body type. So the easy way to describe where people men and women store their fat is in the fruit analogy, some of us as we grow our fat cells, we get our fat cells in critical times in our lives. So that's why it's really, really critical...CRITICAL! I'm going to say this twice, as parents as grandparents to get our kids active from a young age because if we don't, during those critical times of fat cell replication, they're going to make a lot of fat cells. And we carry those our entire lives, and it's their size that changes so that's number one. I'm a new grandparent and so I'm thinking about like a grandparent here.
But body composition in terms of where we store our fat is genetically predetermined, Apple people tend to store adipose tissue around our organs, right. So visceral fat, pear type, people tend to store our fat in our hips. And so the measurement that we need to know about ourselves is what is our waist circumference is because for a woman, anything over 35 (inches) and for a man anything over 40 (inches) predisposes us for to up to five times the risk of metabolic syndrome.
And metabolic syndrome means that we are insulin insensitive, our mitochondria are sick and lagging, that we have cardiovascular disease, hypertension, potential for stroke, all the things that we want to not have, are increased when we have a simple measure of our waist. So that's number for us to know.
And here's something I want to put out there right at the beginning of this conversation. When I talk about metrics, or I talk about waist size, or even I talk about weight, what the scale says. These are not judgments. Ladies, these are observations.
Julie:
I'm so glad you said that. Because you know, for us being in the food space and having this protein and nutrition bar for energy. There's a fine line, you know, because I talk about the 35 inches all the time, and it's okay, it's nice to look cute in your jeans, if that's important. But what's more important is that we live longer, and we're vital. So I appreciate you saying that.This is not about body shaming, or any of that it's about health, longevity and vitality, right?
Dr. Vonda:
Frankly, I don't care what people weigh to a certain extent. And I mention this all the time in my patients, what is their percentage of lean body mass, lean muscle mass is? For instance, I lift really, really heavy for me, right? What's heavy for me would not be heavy for someone else. It would be light for someone else, but I lift really heavy for me. And my body composition has changed remarkably since I started really focusing on not wasting my time with little pink weights and doing 60 repetitions. I now do really heavy weights, really short sets, my weight has not changed. My body composition has dramatically changed because we're building lean muscle mass, which is what your protein supplements and nutrition is all about right, feeding the ability to build lean muscle mass.
You originally asked this the question about an apple and a pear and we talked about the health risks associated with fat. I wanted to return to fat, because people think exactly what you said, that stat is about not looking good in our bathing suits. It's about the our high school reunions and who will look the best, then listen, it's fat! Adipose tissue is a noxious metabolic organ that is pounding out noxious cytokines, which is the chemical communication molecules. And it prevents us from building lean muscle mass, it is what accumulates in every place.
It's not necessarily that I am on a war against fat. I am on a crusade to help people build lean muscle mass.
Julie:
I love that. And the fact that you said noxious, like whoa, that really hit me that nobody wants a noxious gas, you know, out in the environment, but we have it in our body. And you being a double board certified surgeon, like we need to listen to this, folks. It's super important. We've got to get that waist size under 35. I love it's such a simple metric to know am I on track. Right? Right. Right. Right. I love it so much. All right. So let's talk about how that relates if it does to bone density, so lean body mass and bone density, because, you know, we have women now in midlife, we are concerned about not breaking anything. When we get older, I look at my mom actually who's 82. And we were just on a trip, and she was really nervous about stepping into this beautiful shower that made her feel unstable. But as you know, even in our 50s...I'm 58. You know, you're thinking about bone density, super important. So how do we prepare for that? Is calcium important? Give us some tips and thoughts around bone density as it relates to lean body mass?
Dr. Vonda:
Well, I want to, I want to set up a little bit of a framework to answer that question, if you don't mind. So great. We reach peak bone density, meaning as strong as our bones are ever going to be between 20 and 29. So that's why in our daughters, our younger women, I have several daughters in this age category. They've gotta be out there bashing their bones, doing impact exercise, eating the right nutrition so that they lay down the most bone density, because after that, we're either preserving it or we're losing it and so here's something that the younger women listening and I'm gonna go up the ages to answer your question, but between 30-35 and 45, I call it the "Critical Decade." Ladies, that is the decade to get your proverbial stuff together, I would swear on your show, but I don't know you!
Ladies, right 35 to 45! Because what happens at 45, it's when most women on average, I'm using averages, enter into the hormone fluctuations of peri-menopause, you may still have your period. But it's when our body is starting to change right between 45 and on average, depending who you are, and when your menopause is 51-52. And then you are postmenopausal for the rest of your life. During that time between 45 and 55ish, you are going to lose 20% of your bone density! If we don't do anything about it!
20 to 29, you better be laying down some bone. That's like #laydownsomebone right? Some bone running is good. Running is good in that timeframe. Pounding the pavement, literally pounding the pavement. You know, I did a study that was published a long time ago, all my research, most of my research has been on musculoskeletal aging. And I found that impact exercise bashing your bones is as important as all the other risk factors for osteoporosis that we can't control like being female. By being little, by having a family history. We don't control any of that. But we do control impact exercise. So lay down some bone during the critical decade. Continue to support your bone during peri-menopause.
You know some of our insurances will not pay for a DEXA scan until we're 65. Ladies I say save up. It's worth it. Yeah, and buy yourself a DEXA scan, right? It's, you know, anywhere from $100 to $250. Know the status of your bones. Because by 65, it's too late.
So what can we do to build better bones? Well, look, I give all my private clients a jump rope. I want you to jump 20 times a day. I want you to just jump up and down. Trampolines don't count in my opinion, hard TerraForma. You can jump in place, you can use a jump rope 20 times a day, that will stimulate your bone to maintain its bone density. So that's even in peri and even in the stages of menopause. It's not too late. It's never too late. The only time it's too late to jump around is if you have known osteoporosis now, I had a 28 year old in my clinic with a fracture last month she was osteoporotic already. I just got my first DEXA scan. I can't believe I waited to 56 and I was surprised to find that I had normal bone density. So You betcha. Every day. I'm jumping around like a madwoman.
Julie:
What's it called? It's called the jump rope. So basic, it's so powerful. You know, for women with a larger chest. It's not very comfortable to do but it's worth strapping those girls down and jumping.
Dr. Vonda:
Hold yourself and jump up and down right just in the privacy of your own home just
so that's number one. We can't wait.
Julie:
Dr. Vonda, Rebecca asked, "What about walking?"
Dr. Vonda:
Well walking is good for for almost everything in your life. Walking is not a lot of impact. But let's say you have a set of stairs on your walk or you have a stadium, the high school stadium, you can grab hold of the rail and jog up those if you can, we need a little impact. But walking is amazing for your metabolic health you should really do it. The second way to preserve lean muscle mass is I mean to preserve bone is to build lean muscle mass.
Julie:
I know it all works together, both of those things you can do. I love that. Lizzy said
"Wow. Jump up and down 20 times a day right so basic, so powerful." But then she said, "We have to wear two bras to do it well or hold on." Give yourself a hug. Give yourself self love.
Dr. Vonda:
I love that. Okay, so lean body mass. The best way is lifting heavy, not being afraid to work your way up to it, so you don't hurt yourself in the process. We don't have to do hours and hours of cardio anymore. Please don't do that. Please don't do that. Unless you're training for a marathon, unless that's what you're striving for. What's your
Julie:
Go get that DEXA scan. So you know your numbers know your numbers, right? We don't have to guess I know I haven't done a DEXA scan. I've done an In Body a few times. And okay, I'm just going to be transparent and vulnerable to say this, but a 38% body fat, what the heck? How am I going to deal with that?
Dr. Vonda:
Well, you know what, you know how you're going to deal with that...You know what you're going to do about that, you're going to lift heavy weights, because that will, I lost 5% body fat, by really focusing on building, by lifting heavy weights, is stoking our metabolism by building that muscle. And that's what's gonna help because starving ourselves...
There's a myth out there. And I'm sure because you're a nutrition company, you're all about this. You know, and if we could get grocery store magazines to quit publishing, that women should be eating 1000 calories a day, it would serve us. People think that you have to eat fewer calories in order to lose weight. What it does is, it teaches your body to store everything because it thinks we're starving in a cave somewhere, people will find that by eating more calories that are higher in protein, which I know is a message you love, counting Macros, protein macros, you will lose weight, even by eating more calories.
Because you're going to burn it, the building blocks also to build up muscle, and then the work that your body has to do to burn it. But boy, we are conditioned to that 1200, 1000 calories a day, which is wrecking our metabolism.
Julie:
It is yeah. That's really, it's important to hear it from you. There's a lot of voices out there that you know, it's hard for women to trust. And you know, we have an OBGYN in our case, clinical nutritionist and to hear it from your perspective, especially around bone density, because it's a big deal. What about calcium? So should we be taking a calcium supplement?
Dr. Vonda:
You know what? Calcium is not the whole story when it comes to bones. It's a good story, right? I would love for people to eat enough green leafy vegetables to get the calcium they need now. And I would love people not to eat anything in a package, processed foods, you know, proper fluorescent foods, knowing that's not the reality, the recommendation is 1200 milligrams of calcium for women, before menopause and 1800 afterwards. You must break it up into 600 milligram doses if you will, or we can't digest that much at one time. So with the calcium, we need things like potassium and magnesium and so the many formulations come together.
The other thing that's critical, and most of us in this country, unless we supplement, we're deficient on vitamin D, which plays a host of roles in our body. And you can just without even getting your labs done unless you already supplement, just accept the fact you're probably vitamin D deficient. And so I was really vitamin D deficient when I checked it last year. So I supplemented myself with 10,000 international units, that's a really high dose between 500-1000 is more acceptable.
Julie:
Yeah, I'm a big vitamin D person. Also in in our bars, we have between 6 and 7% of the daily value of calcium in the bars as well, just to get a little you know, all those sources and not too much that you can consume. But what about fiber? How does fiber play a role? I say fibers our new BFF. Just saying. I think it's just as important as protein because women don't get enough fiber. Especially during the stages of menopause. Does that support bone density? Or is it just more on the nutrition side?
Dr. Vonda:
Fiber helps us decrease our inflammation which helps us maintain lean muscle mass and in doing so maintain bone density. Fiber is also great for our metabolic health. Here's why. I am not anti carb, I am anti added sugar. I am anti the simple carbs. I want you to take as many complex carbs as you you can tolerate and fiber is one of them, right? Because it's really hard to digest there. There's a reason cows have four stomachs. They only eat fiber, it's really hard. Yeah. So it's great for our gut bacteria. It's great for our inflammation, but it's hard to get 25 grams a day without supplementing and sometimes that's hard to tolerate. I've tried two or three different supplements because I get bloated so you just have to keep experimenting. Getting 25 grams is very important.
Julie:
I love that. I can't believe we haven't sent you some of our bars yet. So we'll send you Double Chocolate Brownie and Blueberry Lemon. And if you want to try vanilla, we'll drop those in too because all of our bars have between 26 to 32% of your daily fiber.
Because it's so important! It's what keeps us full, along with Maca to balance blood sugar and support hormones. That fiber keeps us full because who wants to have something even if it is healthy and clean nutritionally? If you're hungry five minutes after you eat it, that's not our friend.
Dr. Vonda:
So well, you know what? Fiber is the kind of carb that you're supplying. And the way you formulate it, and the reason we're hungry in five minutes, is because when we eat added sugar and simple carbs, our glucose spikes almost immediately, right? And then when it crashes in an hour, we're exhausted again, we're inflamed all the time. So I've worked really hard on my menopause journey to to not have glucose spikes, by eating fiber by paying attention to the way, the order that I eat my foods by using fruit as dessert and not primary. Right, right. And you know what? You can totally manipulate it. I'm not diabetic. But look, I've...
Julie:
Oh, you are wearing a glucose monitor. I was gonna ask you. Yeah, because our, our clinical nutritionist Barb ate a bar, she did some tests with the monitor on. And they just did that nice little move, you know, and stayed really balanced because of the fiber in the fats and zero or one gram of added sugar from dates. That's it.
Dr. Vonda:
I'll do the same thing when you send them. I'll post my charts for you.
Julie:
I would love that. Yeah, that's awesome. And I love what you're talking about how you're eating in combination, because you can really manage those highs and lows by eating foods in order so your body can better manage them better.
Dr. Vonda:
Yeah, you know, the other thing people should eat one of your bars. Listen, I'm not a paid spokesman for your bars. But I'm just thinking people should eat one of your bars if... you know I go to bed at 930 every night. And so if people are thinking what am I going to have as a as a snack right after or after dinner? I wonder how many of the women that are listening wake up at 3:27 every night? Everybody? I know everybody right? Yeah.
Well, one of the reasons that happens is because of the glucose drop that happens universally, and people at that time of night, that's why we're all shaking our heads. Oh 3:37. At the same time, but if you eat something that is slowly released, like fiber, you will not do that. We will sleep through. I know.
Julie:
Wow! Okay, so do it before you go to bed to get that slow release so you don't wake up with that drop and glucose bursting. While you may have some sleep issues. Who knew? I don't usually eat before I go to bed. I try to stop eating at seven.
Dr. Vonda:
Well, neither do I. But whatever you're eating, people who are listening...Do not end with your sugary dessert, because then you're gonna spike and at 3am you're gonna go down to 60 something you're gonna wake, your body's trying to save you! They're gonna wake you up.
(looks at chat stream) Everybody's going 9:30pm! Yes, because I get up at 5. I get up super early. I love going to bed at 930!
Julie:
I love it. Okay, so I bet you have some tips for us. Let's see, do you recommend glucose monitors for all women? That's kind of controversial. What do you want to say about that?
Dr. Vonda:
Well, I'll tell you why I do it and why sometimes I recommend it. I have an orthopedic practice, which is very, you know, put metal in bones. And then I have a separate part of my practice where I, I don't like the word coach, but for lack of a better word, I help people go from states of healthy-ish to optimum health, doing all the things we're talking about. So for my optimum health groups, and individuals, when I think, when I know them, and I know that data matters, right? If I prove to them that they're spiking down, spiking down and they can have a little modicum of control by understanding how this food, their body responds to this food, how their body responds to exercise, how their body responds when they sleep or don't sleep. That is power.
And so I don't put people on them forever. But we may use them for three months. So that I mean, I completely understand my glucose. Now I don't spike anymore. Unless, you know, I cheat. And I know I'm gonna choose to spike.
But what's happened is when I first started wearing it, my fasting glucose, despite everything I was doing was in the mid 90s. And I wasn't comfortable with how close that was to pre-diabetic. So by knowing myself, by changing even minor tweaks to the way I eat, my blood sugar now runs in the high 80s. And I'm very comfortable with that.
Julie:
Right? So it's just about information. It's about knowing you're numbers because otherwise, what are we doing? We're guessing. Right, right. And we don't know what's happening on the inside of our bodies. I mean, we can have that intuition about our bodies and how we feel, and we should listen to our bodies. I'm guessing you would go along with that. But there's those things that we don't always know.
So those tools really helped our Dr. Lareesa, I think she's on here. She is awesome! Recommending different tools for women to kind of bio-hack and understand their bodies. So good stuff. All right. How about some tips for us? Do you have some tips to help us with our bone density and lean body mass? I know you do.
Dr. Vonda:
So I've gone over most of them. But I'm gonna put them all together because it's also what I know as a surgeon practicing since 1999, that when you give people too many things, because listen, there are 8000 things to do, people do nothing. It's too confusing. So I'm just gonna give you the five things that have made the most difference in my own menopause journey. Because I know, I'm a woman, I'm a woman, like all of you out there. I work, I have a family, all the things. I lost my estrogen and she won't come back. Like please come back! Please!
Yeah, so, we talked about this, I protect my sleep. There is no reason to sacrifice your next day, sacrifice your brain. If you can control when you go to bed, control it. Go to bed at the same time, every night, same time, every morning, get up at the same time. Every morning, I do this even on weekends. I start my nighttime routine about 8:30pm which means slowing down, stop working. I take my magnesium at night. If I'm feeling a little wired from the day I do use melatonin.
But then 9:30pm I'm in my room, my husband and I, the lights are off. And then I get up at 5am every morning. Your body will respond to that because sleep is the most metabolically productive time in your whole day. Number one, do not sacrifice it. Don't cheat yourself on sleep, right? If you want to feel better.
Okay, number two is: we've already talked about making the transition to lifting weights if you don't do it, number two, if you already do it transition from the little pink weights lifted 50 times that women are taught to do and learn. Maybe you need a coach, maybe you already know how to do it, to lift heavy shit. We need to lift the heaviest we can. Three to five repetitions, four sets. It does
Julie:
Okay. Write that down everybody 3-5 reps! 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. That is it. Four sets. That's it.
Dr. Vonda:
That's it. Because when you lift all those reps, what happens is you get hurt, and you have to come see me. That's what happens.
Julie:
No lift heavy, but not to sore. That's the other thing I want to say, because I can be an overachiever on those things. And then I do too much. And then I'm sore. And then I don't want to do the next workout. So you've got to find your spot, right? Make your way to that level.
Dr. Vonda:
You do. Listen, you need two days to recover. So don't try to lift heavy with the same body parts two days in a row. You need two days to recover, at least. Yeah. Okay.
The third thing is how you do your aerobic work. We talked about this a lot. We talked about sleep. We talked about lean muscle mass, the aerobic work. I used to be addicted to high intensity interval training. And I used to be a marathon runner and just grind out the miles, right? Well, what I find in people in midlife, is that when you high intensity interval train, and you're wondering what the heck, I work so hard all the time, I'm not losing any weight. I'm hurt all the time. Blah, blah, blah. It's because we're overtraining, the way our bodies respond is the same way pro athletes...
I'm a sports doctor, I take care of high intensity athletes and you know how they train? 80% of the time they're doing base training, which is low heart rate, zone one.
Julie: Zone two.
Dr. Vonda:
Zone two, that's right! Three hours a week and zone two. Now you can be really precise and come here, and I'll measure your lactate threshold. Or you can assume that you're like most people, and you take 182 minus your age. And so in the 120s is where your heart is, and and mitochondria are most metabolically productive. It's hard to do. You're gonna feel like you're not working hard enough. But you are.
Julie:
That's what happens to me. I feel like, "Am I really making an impact at 121, 122?"
Dr. Vonda:
Metabolically, you are.
Julie: Walking fast, you can get there.
To hear the end of this informative interview with double board certified Dr. Vonda Wright, watch the last six minutes on Instagram.